How Real Estate Agents Can Dominate SEO & Local Search on Market Movers Podcast

I had the pleasure of joining the Market Movers podcast, a go-to spot for transforming businesses into unforgettable brands. In this episode, I dive deep into the intersection of branding, SEO, and link-building, sharing insights on how to make your business more visible, credible, and irresistible to your audience.

As the Founder of SEO Optimizers and a digital marketing expert with over 15 years of experience, I specialize in helping real estate businesses boost their online presence. During the podcast, I share strategies to help real estate professionals leverage SEO for lead generation in a highly competitive marketplace. We cover essential topics like optimizing local map listings, content creation, and the evolving role of AI in digital marketing.

Key Takeaways:

• SEO for Real Estate Agents: Learn how to target niche keywords and specific communities to bypass big competitors like Zillow, focusing on low-competition terms with high buyer intent.
• Local Map Listings Optimization: Discover how to fully complete your Google Business Profile, maintain consistency across various platforms, and build trust through reviews and map embedding.
• Keyword Strategy & Content Planning: I explain the importance of targeting long-tail keywords related to specific amenities or communities, and how to use tools like Google Keyword Planner to find low-competition terms.
• Importance of Backlinks: High-quality, niche-relevant backlinks remain essential for ranking. We discuss how guest posts, podcasts, and digital PR outreach can help boost credibility.
• Utilizing AI for Content: AI tools can enhance content creation, but the right balance between AI and human input is crucial for accuracy and scaling production.
• Future of Real Estate SEO: While AI search platforms are on the rise, traditional SEO techniques still hold strong potential, particularly for transactional queries.

You can connect with me and access special resources, including free SEO training, at SEOOptimizers.com/gift

Transcript

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Putting keywords in there for Google is important, but really, you gotta write for people first. Google secondary. Is SEO a good option for everyone. Or are SEO just a free traffic source? The more maps you're in, the more trust Google's gonna give to you. And just try to do whatever you can to get Google to start trusting you more, because creating a listing does nothing without trust. It's been a nightmare journey. The more specific your prompts are, the better results are. Walk us through some of your favorite strategies. I feel like if you don't have backlinks, you're not gonna rank. I'll try to stick outside the box on ways to get niche relayed websites to give you that backlink. Be prepared for whatever happens, then be prepared for new platforms, new search engines. Get Google to trust you more and make you hire. Two, three, four. Want to attract and convert more leads? Want to learn how digital pr, branding and SEO can establish and build your brand identity? Welcome to the market movers building brands and links with Linkify podcast. We answer these questions and help you ramp up your brand visibility and credibility. Let's cut through the noise and make your business the talk of the town. We're your hosts, Nick and Chris. Let's get this show on the road. Welcome to the Market Movers podcast. Today we're joined by Brandon Lebowitz, the founder of SEO Optimizers and a digital marketing expert. 15 years of experience. Brandon specializes in helping businesses, including real estate firms, improve their online visibility and generate more leads through effective SEO strategies. He's here to share his insights on how real estate professionals can leverage SEO to compete in a crowded online market space, from local map listings to content creation and link building tactics. Welcome, Brandon. Thank you for having me on today. Hey, Brandon, it's great to have you on. To kick things off, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and your background in marketing? Yeah. My name is Brandon Leibowitz. I've been involved with digital marketing since 2007. I got my degree in business marketing, and after I graduated from university, my first job was helping the company out with their digital marketing, which I didn't really know much about it back in 2007. They don't really teach it to you in school, and the company knew that and told me, don't worry, we're new to this as well. We're gonna learn with you, taking you to classes at workshops and seminars, and did that for a few months and just kind of realized this is the future. Everyone's probably gonna have a website and SEO is a way to get free traffic. Social media, email, paid ads, it all works to get traffic, but SEO is just a free traffic source. And I thought, who doesn't want free traffic? So over the years I focused on SEO, working at different advertising agencies and as a director of SEO. And before work or after work on my lunch breaks, I'd work on my own company and eventually built that up to, whereas I would quit my job and focus solely on this and been doing that ever since. Awesome. So you've seen a bit then, I imagine over the years it's changed all the time. Well, we know that you do a lot of work with real estate, so it's a space that we love personally from a digital pr perspective. So we were thinking to try and take this conversation with a real estate slant. If you could tell us if you think SEO is still is a good tactic for real estate agents. As long as people are searching for your keywords, then I would target it. But with real estate, it could be dominated by Zillow or these big corporate websites. So if you're searching for homes for sale, let's say, in Paris and everything is zillow, it might be hard to break through. But if you can find unique variations, like you find like they have different communities, and if you target those community names, like if it's called the gardens in Paris, then you can target the gardens, which is a townhouse community, and you focus solely on that and that will have less competition, less people are going to be searching for it. But the people searching for it, they know they want a townhouse in this community. They have that buyer intent versus somebody just saying home for sale in Paris, it's really vague and can mean a ton of different things. So just finding those really niche keywords that have low competition but still have that buyer intent are going to be good keywords to go after. So we've noticed that real estate agents, because we work with quite a few and we've talked to others and they either focus on SEO or they just completely ignore it. We've talked to so many agents who have said, like, we don't focus on it at all. All of our leads come from, you know, networking or we're buying them from Zillow, Trulia, whatever it is. Is SEO a good option for everyone or are there some situations for at the firm level, not the individual agent level? Where is it? Is it really the case where every firm could be getting a lot of traffic from SEO? Yeah, as long as there's search volume for those keywords. So if you're in some small town with a population of 20 people, then maybe SEO would be the best because unless ultimately people are searching and trying to buy a home, but if not, it might not be the best viable traffic source. So it really just comes down to are people searching and is, are the search results just dominated by these big corporations? If so, if you're just a startup, maybe hold off, but if you work for a big corporation, then go for it. Target these big corporate keywords because you're going to be able to compete with them. But if you're just a startup or just a one person job, it's going to be really, really tough to compete with them. But it's all just all about finding good keywords that have that low competition. And that's where you can use tools like the Google Keyword planner to help you research keywords and find search volume and see which ones potentially might be the best fit for your, for your audience. And I imagine as well, because we've worked with some, with some clients that have like ranked organically, they've done some content, they've got some organic rankings, and then it's been like a light bulb moment where they've thought, God, this is actually like a realistic like lead Gen source. And then they've started to focus on it and put more time and effort into it. So I think it is interesting that there may be or there will be untapped lead gen potential for many real estate agents and firms that have never looked into doing this with content, SEO content. But those opportunities are there. Can we discuss local map listings and how they can be optimized for specific areas then? Cause obviously this is a key focus for many firms. The map pack, how can that be optimized? What should they do? You need to create a listing in Google Business profile and make sure you fill out everything as much as possible. If it says write 500 words, write 500 words about your business, don't write 50 words because Google feeds off text. And the more content we put on that on your website, on Google Business profile, on a YouTube video, anywhere that podcast, you add more text to those that content, Google is going to be able to read it easier and better rank it. So filling out Google Business profile as much as possible and then making sure that you build more, more listings on other maps. The more maps you're in with consistent information, the higher you're gonna rank on Google Maps. So getting on like Apple Maps and Bing Maps and MapQuest and yellow pages and hundreds of other maps. The more maps you're in, the more trust Google's gonna give to you and the higher they rank you on Google Business profile. And then trying to get reviews if you can, trying to make sure your images have keywords before you upload them to Google Business profile. And just try to make sure you embed that map on your website. And just try to do whatever you can to get Google to start trusting you more because creating a listing does nothing without trust. And it all goes down to trust with your website, with maps, whatever it is you need to build trust with Google to get them to want to rank you. When you look at where leads are coming from for real estate firms, what percentage do you think is maps versus organic or coming into the service pages is maps? The map listings the biggest driver. Of leads, if they rank on the maps for in the top position, then maps will bring more. Usually because maps are higher up, but it varies. So if the map is lower, then it might get less traffic because Google kind of plays around with it, but usually it's higher up. So if it's higher up, people are going to kind of be drawn into what's at the top. They usually try to skip over the ads because they know it's sponsored ads, but if the maps are higher than the websites, and the maps are probably going to get more traction. Okay, cool. And do you actually think then do you have any insight from the, like the firm level, the real estate agents level, whether or not all organic leads actually convert, as well as the leads that they're buying in. So I don't really see what happens behind the scenes after they get leads. I just see if they get phone calls or emails or people filling out the form, but once it's past that, then it's really on them to make sure that they're able to convert that lead into a new client or someone buying a home or selling home, which can be tough. Buying a home, selling a home is a really long process. So it's not like they're just going to a website and buying some shoes or a t shirt where we could track directly those conversions. It's a little bit more indirect with the realtors, where it's on them and how good they are at finding homes listings, presenting that to the buyer, making sure that they show up on time. They do open houses and all these things that need to be in place, so it's a little tougher, but usually they say that the organic gets good results as long as you target the right keywords. But if you're just targeting obscure keywords, then it's gonna really give you the wrong type of leads because traffic is not really means to an end. You gotta make sure you have targeted traffic that have that buying intent. If you're just targeting random keywords just to get traffic, that's not gonna do much for you. But when we're focusing on really specific keywords in different communities, different cities, towns, zip codes, then it comes much more specific to get better leads that are actually going to want to hopefully use their services. But people also shop around when they're looking for realtors, so it's kind of tough to get that one. Realtor real estate is pretty competitive. Yeah. So you just mentioned as well that it's a long and arduous process to buy a house. I'm currently in the process. I'm coming towards the tail end of it now of buying and it has been a nightmare journey. So I think I'm going to try and stay settled for a while. But Yeah, okay. So you mentioned earlier that competitive keywords, if you're looking at your main keywords and you're seeing Redfin ranking, Trulia Zillow, and then you need to go and find less competitive keywords. So can you give some guidance on what kind of things to look for? There's the obvious things, like maybe the individual neighborhoods. What kind of strategy do you have for coming up with a content plan? Keyword research. When the big players dominate the main. Focus keywords, I would try to find all the communities around that area and focus on those because those really aren't usually too saturated versus the bigger city names. But if you find the communities within the cities, like there might be a townhouse community or a condo community, and they name it a certain thing. Or you could go after certain niches, like first time home buyers or something like that. People that want condos by the beach, waterfront homes. So making those long tail keywords, keywords that are two or more words are gonna have less competition, but more buyer intent. So just trying to look and think of as many keywords as possible and then use tools like the keyword planner to see variations, synonyms, plurals, and try to pick and choose which ones you think are going to be the best. But just because the keyword is, has a good search volume, you still want to search it and make sure it's not just dominated by those corporate websites. But let's say you've got, like, a list of, like, neighborhoods or areas you could focus on. How do you create content for all of them and still come up with something unique? Or these just simple landing pages? Otherwise, you know, it would feel like you're just repeating the same thing over and over again. If you're writing for all these different areas that are very similar with. Real estate agents, is actually pretty easy when it comes down to other niches, like mind SEO, it's a little tough. Like, how do I write about SEO in London, in New York, and all this stuff? But realtors, they make pages for every city, and then they just list out the. The fire department, all the emergency things that people would want to know, the park's population, the crime rate. So anything that people would want to know about that city, you can just add that in and then put some words about yourself in there and mix it in and blend it all in. So real truth, it's actually one of the easiest ones, but with other industries, it gets a little tricky. Like, all right, a lawyer. What do we talk about for a lawyer in all these cities that are going to resonate with people that want to use this lawyer? Most of them don't care about all that stuff, but with realtors, at least, you could definitely put out the schools, the crime rate, what's walkable, and you just pull stuff from Wikipedia and just a general area, and just repurpose all that, reword it, and make it presentable to a prospective home buyer in that city. Something that if you were looking for a home, which of course you're doing right now, you could try to think like, what am I looking at? What things are standing out for me? Am I looking for? If you have children, then you probably care about school. But if you don't have children, then you probably care about rate or what's. Is it near a metro system or is it near the ocean, the beach? Or where is it? So find these amenities, targeting those and putting that into the content. And would you look to do any sort of content type pieces outside of that? More like formulaic, generic posts that you need to have for each community area? Would you look at doing any sort of different content style pieces? If the search intent called for it for a particular keyword, roundup posts, recommendations of things to do in certain areas. Is that part of a good content strategy for a real estate firm? Yeah. Every keyword search is going to be different. So you have to see what Google shows on that first page, and then you have to try to emulate what those websites are doing. If everyone is writing a blog post, then you should probably write a blog post. If everyone is writing a 2000 word article, then it should probably write 2100 words of content on your page. So try to do a little bit more than the competition, but essentially you should create pages for every single city, town community that you want to target. And then you should even write blogs about all those communities, interlink them all together. And then you should get third party sites to link out to those blogs and those community pages to build that trust up and get them to rank higher, because creating those pages, those content plays work. If you have backlinks, but if you don't have backlinks, Google's gonna just skip over all that content and say, all right, we don't believe anything that you put on this website because we just don't trust you. And we trust Zillow, we trust Trulia, but we don't trust you. So all this content is great, but we still need those trust signals. You're talking about all these different areas. Should you link them in the navigation? I see a lot of real estate agents and they've got 50 different towns listed. Their footer is that wide? It's super wide. It takes forever to scroll through. How do you handle the navigation when you cover that many things? Should you avoid listing all of them out in your navigation? If they're important, then I would list them all out in the navigation. But if they're not gonna be important for most people that are coming to your website, then you just leave them as hidden pages and have them as pages that exist on your website. They're just not linked from the top navigation, but they need to be linked somewhere. So you have a page that lists out all your service areas and then interlinked them from there, but they have to be somewhere on that website. Just, you don't have to have it at the top navigation if you don't wanna cluttered up, especially on mobile, nobody wants to scroll through 50 listings where it's just scrolling and scrolling. That top hammergroom navigation just takes up the whole page. You do see some big old photos, don't you? Okay, so in terms of actual content production, then we're doing competition analysis. We're matching search intent and we're going to try and emulate what's ranking in the top three. What are we doing in terms of content optimization tools such as surfer SEO? And are you using or having any success with AI in order to formulate that content? Google said, we don't care who uses or who writes the content last year. So doesn't matter if AI or people write it, as long as it's accurate and good for the reader. I have a lot of writers, unfortunately, a lot of them are using AI, so it's tough. And I try to find people that are opposed to AI to write the content because I'd still rather have people write it because if you just have AI write the content, it's probably gonna be full of incorrect content. It's gonna have those AI new stations where if it doesn't know the answer, it makes it up, it doesn't tell you it's making it up, which is a little strange. So it's so sure of itself in it. Just use it. Take it with a grain of salt, whatever it puts out there. It might be accurate, but it also might be completely off topic. So you just gotta read through and edit it. So I like to use it like, is it helpline? Not bad with that. But in terms of just regular content, it is not quite there yet, but in a couple years it will definitely be there. Where is input? A couple prompts. And the more specific your prompts are, the better results are. But even when I get really specific and have a prompt that's like two pages long, it still does those AI hallucinations. It writes really good content, but you stop to go in and edit it and tweak it. So it's a good starting point. But edits made things much, much faster because if you have 50 towns that you want to write content for, I have to wait for an article writer to write 50 pieces of content. AI can write it in, in probably 1 minute, all 50 pieces of content. It's pretty crazy and it's all original. It's just not accurate. So that's where you just gotta go in and tweak it and play around with it and make sure that you're putting out content that's gonna be useful for the reader. That's, number one, is putting keywords in there for Google is important, but really right for people first, Google secondary. Yeah, that's very true. I think one of the ways we've been using AI is giving in a lot of source data. So we load everything in and then we're having it summarize or write based off of that. And then one of the things I like to do is when you're not sure about a stat it's given you, you can ask it, show me exactly where this came from and it'll pull that information. That helps a lot there. No, you get an apology at that point a lot. Where it goes. Oh, you're correct. I don't know where I got that information from. It's like I was just making it up. Sorry, I got it from google.com dot. But yeah, if you ask for citations and sources help that too. But they could just make it up to you saying like, hey, we found this Wikipedia page and it might not even exist, but usually with the sources it's a little bit better. But even then it could still be off. Like I say, write 1000 words of content and it'll write like 500 words or about write 2000 words and I tell it then like specify how many words this is and it still sometimes makes up the word count. And a little strange, but it's not bad. It's just it's infancy stage. It needs a little bit more time. That's the most baffling thing I think when it just doesn't get the word count right or you say make a list of 50 items and it stops at 20 something and like that, that I don't quite understand. That's pretty funny, Brandon. Very large real estate agents or multi city, multi state agencies, could they utilize like a combination of AI and then pulling in APIs and doing, you know, you're talking about like city schools, numbers, school sizes, districts, that sort of thing, where you can mass produced content with accurate information being pulled from various different data points. If you have a programmer or a guy to do that, then that would be even better in real time, having it update with that content that would just take it one step above everyone else because now you don't have to constantly go in and edit. If a school shut down or if there's a new park, you have to add that new park or if the hospital change addresses, you have to change that address. And it can be very, very tedious. Try to keep up with all that. So if you could somehow pull it all in and have it auto update in real time, that would be ideal. Definitely. Maybe someone will go and implement that now. We'll see. Okay, so let's talk about links. First of all, how important do you feel links are for SEO in the space? And then walk us through some of your favorite strategies. I feel like if you don't have backlinks, you're not going to rank. I don't think I've really ever seen a website rank without backlinks. Google's algorithm is based off backlinks and it's still heavily based off backlinks because they don't trust what keywords you put on the website because anyone go and can put keywords on the website and say, I'm a doctor, I'm a lawyer. Google's like, is that really what you are? Because we don't want to just rank you and find out you don't exist. So they want to see other websites talking about you. And the more websites that are related to what you're doing and have authority that link out to you, the more trust Google is going to give to you. And the higher they're going to rank you. Google said, we don't put much emphasis on backlinks, but again, looking at tools and who ranks on that first page of Google, I don't think I've ever seen a website that has zero backlinks ranking on Google, unless it's like some obscure keyword that has no competition. Pick a rank. But if you have any competition, you're going to need to build some trust up to get Google to rank you. And there's lots of ways to build backlinks. I like to try looking at my competitors backlinks using tools like ahrefs or mods or Semrush to spy on my competition and see what keywords are being, what backlinks they're building, where they're coming from and going through one by one, looking at each backlink that seems relevant and authoritative, not just going after every backlink, because not all of them are going to be good backlinks. And you don't want to build low quality backlinks. It's going to do more harm than good. So making sure you build good quality backlinks and good quality backlinks, again, really is sites that are niche related and have authority. Those are the two things I really focus on when building backlinks really relevancy is number one and authority is very, very important. But sometimes you might get on a really niche site that's a brand new website, but you hope in five years that this website that's really new, it's gonna build into a bigger brand. So just because it's smaller doesn't have a lot of domain authority. If it's really relevant, I'd say it still is a good website. If it's really relevant and a good real business, not just a fake PBN or website that just popped up to try to acquire backlinks. So if you are doing, if you're reverse engineering competition and you're looking at link profile, backlink profile, how are you making a determination on how those links were earned? Like whether or not it's a paid niche edit a guest post via digital pr, how are you coming to the conclusion for then you to then go and also try and get that link? I don't know if it makes sense to go after it. So if I see someone wrote an article about them, but it is published in 2010, I might say, all right, it might be tough to get this author to update this article. They probably don't even have work there anymore. So you're not gonna be able to get all the backlinks from your competition. And once you've exhausted that list, you might get like 10% of them that are good, and then you have to start building more backlinks or newer ones. So I'd look at my other competitors, but then after a while, we've looked at all the backlinks, you gotta start building new ones. And I like to do blogger outreach still. So finding really, really niche related blogs, not just any random blogs, but targeted websites, and try to write for these, try to build relationships with these websites. Or if I could be a guest on a podcast, usually if they have a website, they can give you a backlink. So try to just think outside the box on ways to get niche related websites to give you that backlink. And it's really all about offering something of value. If you just ask for a backlink, no one's gonna say yes. I mean, some people might, but most people are gonna say no or pay me. But if you offer value, like, if you're an e commerce website, you can give out samples. If you have low ticket products, if you give out samples of products to influencers that have a blog, they have to have a blog. If they just have an instagram, it's not gonna really help your SEO, but if they have a blog and write about it, that will help out. So just trying to get creative and think, like, how can I get other people to want to give me this backlink? And usually time, like, if you're a real estate agent, then time is what you're offering. So time, whether it's you're being a guest on the show. You're putting content out, writing an article or blog or some content play. But usually that's the best way, is some content piece on a third party, niche related website. Yeah, that's interesting. You do have to provide something of value, and oftentimes that's money. They're just asking for money. But that's an interesting angle of, if you're looking at local, it could be just the time that if you're on the podcast or niche related, I guess, on the podcast or doing other things like that as a way to earn the backlinks, it's really interesting. Okay, so we're seeing a lot of changes in Google lately. AI overviews. A lot of thought of maybe some traffic moving to different platforms. What do you think the next few years will look like in the real estate space? Do you think AI overviews will have a big impact on real estate searches? Do you think any traffic will be lost to other platforms? I wish I knew the answer to all that because it is changing so quickly. Like every single day, something new is happening, and we'll have to see what happens. With chat, GPT is putting their own search engine out, so we'll have to see if that takes traffic away. But if people are searching on Google or Chat, GPT or DuckDuckgo, it doesn't really matter. As long as they're searching on a search engine, then SEO is still going to be around, and it's just trying to figure out who your audience is, where are they and how do I get in front of them at the right moment? So you might have to shift a little bit, but want to see if AI takes traffic away, because AI is just kind of, I'd say like a featured snippet where Google, if you search on Google, they'll kind of give you a featured snippet giving you the answer usually at the top through schema. And that's not AI, but it's similar to AI where AI just giving you an answer. It's a lot longer, more in depth, but it is similar. So we'll have to see what happens if people just realize Google's kind of been doing this already. It's just chat. GPT is doing it in a log form and gives you the option to just create a lot of content. It could code, it can do all these other things, which I think is really drawing people into it. It's like, hey, code me schema, or do code me a whole new website, build me a API to import all that information in and it'll do it for you. So we'll have to see for more informational content. I feel like it's going to take that traffic away. Just like the feature snippets took traffic away from Wikipedia and all these platforms, it's going to take a lot of traffic away from that, but from transactional ones, I don't think we'll have to see how that works. But you can't really buy off AI yet. But I feel like they will incorporate that and incorporate ads and probably just turn into another Google replica or just with more tools where you can write content and use the AI functionality to have it talk to it and ask it questions and hopefully give you the answer right there. But for transactional, I still feel like it needs websites because especially for e commerce, for real estate, I'm not sure how it's gonna work, but for e commerce, you're trying to buy tennis shoes and you go to AI and they just give you one option, you're gonna be like, all right, how do I know this is the best shoes? Like, you're just gonna give me nikes, but I wanna see other variations. So those ones might have to have a little thought put into it on how to lay it out properly and get that user journey to want to stick with using those new platforms. I think even if AI only recommends one agent, for example, there's not gonna be the same for every question. If your question is about for first time home buyers versus short term rental, going to be different areas to go after. So it's going to be interesting, for sure. I also think it's going to be one of the slower industries to move to the shift that we're already seeing. So people are using different platforms to search. They're searching for things that we wouldn't have expected five years ago on places like TikTok. But like you said with e.com with real estate, when I was looking for a house, it's Google. If I'm looking for some health related expertise or services, it's Google. I actually looked in the newspaper. We have like weekly house listings in the newspaper. Believe it or nothing. Certain habits will take, will be will take longer to change. Yeah, but it is, it is moving so fast. Who knows? That's a very good point. Yeah, it's interesting to just try to watch this waving. I know it's not a trend, it's not gonna just die off, but you never know because things just come and go. But with AI, I feel like, it's not gonna stop anytime soon. It's gonna keep growing and growing and growing, but just have to keep staying on top of it and just seeing what's happening next and just try to be prepared for whatever happens next. Essentially, just be prepared for new platforms, new search engines. But no matter what, they're always going to have to look at similar signals that Google's looking at because what else are they going to look at for trust. AI can't just read other websites because people are just using AI to create content that is full of incorrect information. If they just read that content and think it's correct, then it's going to be that loop of just never ending fake content being put out there. So they have to look at those third party trust signals, social signals, backlinks, all that stuff to help really build that trust up and get you to rank on those platforms. I also think as well, what's fascinating is the people that are utilizing AI on their own end. So we've had some guests on where they're actually using AI as much as they possibly can on their own web property. They're creating AI images for dress, how you shop, so you can see how you look in the clothes. Maybe real estate, like you just said Brandon, being able to, if that was housed on their platforms where you could talk to an integrated AI bot and just ask questions about certain properties that you've seen on the website. So I think the companies that are able to integrate this technology on their own platform are going to be able to keep the customers with them for much, much longer. But yeah, it's moving so fast. So we have to just keep watching the trends every day. Okay. I think this, as we're coming towards an end, Brandon, this would just be a good place to ask about digital printhead. For real estate, we found it to be one of the nicest industries to work in. Its always a trending topic in the news, from celebrity homes to how can you make your house sell for an extra thousand dollars? What can you do in the garden? The journalists are always talking about it. We feel like it's an excellent opportunity for real estate agents. Are you seeing real estate agents do digital pr on their own or utilizing this as a link building strategy? Not many of them are doing it on their own, but once I tell them about building backlinks, it's a little trickier. Like, I work with lawyers and they get written up all the time in the news. If they're doing a big case. So I tell them, hey, you just got written up on all these news platforms, but now they give you a backlink. We need to reach out to them and try to get these backlinks. But with real estate agents, they're not really getting that organic pr. They kind of have to push and do that outreach to get that. Unless they sell like the most expensive home or something like where it's the most or a unique home, they might get some pr about that. But in general, if you're just selling like a condo near the beach, it's probably not going to get too exciting or too much written up about it. But you can try to do a press release and distribute that. But I feel like the PR backlinks don't really move the needle like they used to because they're just really generic kind of websites, unless you get on really good pr websites. But if you're just going to like PR web and distributing it there doesn't really have that same effect. It might help with local because the more name, address and phone number nap citations you have, the higher you're gonna ring on Google Business profile. So you get listed on all these third party sites, but a lot of them are just random and they're all news websites, so there's no relevancy really. You're not getting on like a real estate website. You might get just a really generic kind of website that has millions of other articles that are just on a variety of topics. It could even be like gambling and pornography. So mixing with that might not be the best. But if you get real pr, that is really tough to get. But if you have real websites like the Huffington Post or something like that to write about you, that would be a huge, huge win because those are big authoritative websites that pass on a lot of trust. But it's all about just trying to get creative and building relationships with these websites. If you know people, editors, writers, that's going to be the best. So working with like a real pr firm, because SEO, I feel like we do pr, but it's more for Google to see the content. We also want people to see it, but it's people is kind of secondary. Google is number one for SEO, just to get Google to trust you more and rank you higher because you might get published on the Huffington Post, you might get a ton of traffic for like a week or two, but after a couple of months or years, you just kind of get buried in there. But that backlink is always going to be visible to Google and that Backlink is always going to be sending more trust signals to your website and hopefully that Backlink will just bring in more traffic and definitely to keep you up there for your keywords. We found that there are just so many publications writing about real estate. So from realtor.com that's one we land a lot, but a lot of in the home renovation space as well. They're always asking for realtors advice and opinion, like where do you want to invest money when you're doing a home remodel? Does this repay for itself? Does this repay. So there's lots of topics out there and journalists are always looking for real estate agents, to quote. That is great using like Haro or any of those websites to just try to tap into where those news reporters are and try to get them to hopefully write about you and give you that good authoritative backlink. Always a good thing, but it is tricky. So just being patient with it and try to get one a month, that's a huge win, or one every few months of these big. It's our data sites that's definitely going to be a good push on your SEO play. It is tricky and obviously, you know, that's what we do and what we do well. But also for actual like real estate agents listening, the game now for these inbound requests from journalists is they're just looking for what these real estate agents often already have, but may not have like presented in a way which is quite easy for them to do. So the journalists just want to quote actual real people that have expertise and credentials in what it is that they're looking for. On platforms like Haro, even journalists directly on places like LinkedIn and Twitter, they're saying like for Housebeautiful.com comma, realtor.com, comma, realhomes.com comma, ideal homes, huge websites looking for a real estate to give me comments on X, Y and Z. And if that real estate agent is visible with a LinkedIn, a website, an about page credentials clearly demonstrated they've got a huge chance, huge opportunity to get those massive links, like you said, that do move the needle. So I think that tied in with the content strategy that you were talking about earlier, covering all of those, that holistic content strategy means that there is still for some time to come potential for SEO traffic which can convert into sales for real estate agents. There's definitely a lot of potential that just try and piece them all together and figure out what's going to, it's really going to hit the home with that audience best or your target audience of people searching. So definitely play around with it. Yeah, for sure. All right, Brandon, I think that's a good place to wrap up. Thanks for coming on. It's been an awesome talk for people who want to connect with you. Where can we send them? So anyone that wants to learn more, I actually created a special gift for them. If they go to my website at SEO optimizers.com, that's SEO pt I I z and they can find that gift there along with my contract information and other classes I've done over the years. I've done it for free so they could see, step by step how to do a lot of stuff that we've been talking about today. Awesome. Well, thank you, Brandon. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me on today. And that wraps up this episode of market movers and building brands and links with Linkify. Big thanks to our parent company, Linkify, the wizards behind turning ambitious business businesses and to stand out brands. Hit up our website at Linkfi IO and take the first steps towards brand greatness. Big shout out to fame for making this podcast possible. Thanks for listening, folks. Stick around for more insights in our next episode. Catch you later.