Marketing Your Website With SEO - Business Choreography Podcast

I had an awesome time chatting with Michael Johnson on the Business Choreography Podcast! 🎤💥 We went deep into SEO, how I got started (spoiler: I kinda fell into it 😅), and why backlinks are still the secret sauce for getting that sweet, free traffic to your site.

I shared my journey from working at ad agencies to building SEO Optimizers since 2007 and helping businesses turn website traffic into leads and sales. 💻📈

We talked about what makes a quality backlink (hint: it’s not about spamming as many as possible anymore), why SEO is a long-term game, and why optimizing for humans (not just Google) is the key to success.

If you’re a business owner wondering when or how to start SEO (hint: NOW!), or if you’re confused about keywords, website optimization, or backlinks — this is a must-listen.

I even shared tips on how to analyze your competitors, build trust with Google, and avoid those SEO mistakes that can do more harm than good.

🔥 Fun fact: You don’t need to be everywhere, just where your audience actually hangs out.

Huge thanks to Michael for having me back on the show — it’s always a blast! 🙏

Check out the episode to learn how to choreograph your SEO and marketing efforts so they dance in perfect sync. 💃🕺

#SEO #DigitalMarketing #Backlinks #BusinessGrowth #SEOOptimizers #PodcastGuest #EntrepreneurLife #ContentMarketing #BusinessChoreography #TrafficToSales 🚀

Transcript

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What's up, everybody? Michael Johnson here with the What's up, everybody? Michael Johnson here with the Business Choreography Podcast. Business Choreography Podcast. And I'm excited you joined me And I'm excited you joined me today because we have a today because we have a very special guest, very special guest, Brandon Leibowitz. Brandon Leibowitz. He has been on a couple of our He has been on a couple of our podcasts and shows before, podcasts and shows before, and I'm excited to have him back and I'm excited to have him back because he's really cool. because he's really cool. You guys aren't going to want You guys aren't going to want to miss any piece of to miss any piece of this interview. Brandon has run and operated this interview. Brandon has run and operated SEO Optimizers since 2007. SEO Optimizers since 2007. They're a digital marketing They're a digital marketing company that focuses on helping company that focuses on helping small and medium sized small and medium sized businesses get more businesses get more online traffic, online traffic, which turns into clients, which turns into clients, sales leads, sales leads, and who doesn't need and who doesn't need more of that? Guys, more of that? Guys, Brandon is an awesome guy and Brandon is an awesome guy and I'm stoked to have him on the show. I'm stoked to have Let's cue the intro and him on the show. Let's cue the intro and we'll jump right in. we'll jump right in. Listen, there's a lot to learn when Listen, there's a lot to learn when growing and scaling growing and scaling your business. That's why we created the your business. That's why we created the Business Choreography Podcast Business Choreography Podcast where we talk about choreographing your marketing where we talk about choreographing your marketing operations and sales into operations and sales into dynamic systems that increase dynamic systems that increase your revenue and your impact. your revenue and your impact. We'll explore solid business We'll explore solid business principles and discuss all principles and discuss all things that make businesses things that make businesses dance to success with clarity. dance to success with clarity. We'll help you figure out where We'll help you figure out where the holes are in your business and what you can do to fix them. the holes are in your business and what you can do to fix them. Think of us as your official Think of us as your official business choreographers, business choreographers, AKA your insider growth AKA your insider growth strategists. Remember, strategists. your choreography matters. Remember, your choreography matters. Welcome to the Business Welcome to the Business Choreography Podcast. Choreography Podcast. Brandon, thank you so much for joining us Brandon, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm excited to have you. today. I'm excited to have you. It's fun to have you on the It's fun to have you on the show. Thanks for being here. show. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having Thank you for having me on today. Absolutely. me on today. Absolutely. I am excited to introduce I am excited to introduce you to our audience. I want to start by making sure you to our audience. I want to start by making sure they know how cool of a guy you they know how cool of a guy you are. So here's my question. are. So here's my question. How the heck did you get started How the heck did you get started into SEO? I mean, into SEO? I mean, what led you down the path to be what led you down the path to be here today running this cool here today running this cool company and doing all the company and doing all the stuff you're doing? stuff you're doing? I just kind of fell into it. I just kind of fell into it. Wasn't planning on it, Wasn't planning on it, but I got my first job but I got my first job out of school. I got my degree in business out of school. I got my degree in business marketing and I was helping a marketing and I was helping a company doing their digital marketing. company doing their And I didn't know much about digital marketing. And I didn't know much about digital marketing. They didn't know much about it digital marketing. They didn't know much about it either. This is in 2007. either. This is in 2007. They said, don't worry, we're gonna take the classes and They said, don't worry, we're gonna take the classes and workshops and learn alongside workshops and learn alongside with you. And after working there with you. And after working there for a few months, just realized that everyone's for a few months, just realized that everyone's probably gonna have a website in probably gonna have a website in the future and there's a lot of the future and there's a lot of different ways to get traffic. different ways to get traffic. And what I was doing with them And what I was doing with them was helping out with their SEO. was helping out with their SEO. I was Helping out with social I was Helping out with social media. I was doing paid ads, media. I was doing paid ads, I was doing email marketing, I was doing email marketing, kind of doing it all for them, kind of doing it all for them, and just realized that and just realized that everything works to get traffic. everything works to get traffic. But SEO is just a way But SEO is just a way to get free traffic. to get free traffic. And why spend money on paid ads And why spend money on paid ads when you could get up there for free? when you could get up And that's what I focused there for free? And that's what I focused on over the years, working at different advertising on over the years, working at different advertising agencies as a director of SEO. agencies as a director of SEO. And before work or after work, And before work or after work, on my lunch breaks, on my lunch breaks, I work on my own company and I work on my own company and built that up to where I was built that up to where I was able to quit my job and able to quit my job and focus solely on this. And ever since been doing that, focus solely on this. And ever since been doing that, just helping people get more just helping people get more traffic to their websites. traffic to their websites. That's amazing. And it's just, That's amazing. And it's just, it's so typical of an it's so typical of an entrepreneur, you know, like, entrepreneur, you know, like, yeah, we started off working for yeah, we started off working for somebody else and realized there somebody else and realized there was a need and sort of ended was a need and sort of ended up in it. You know, up in it. You know, building a business building a business is challenging, is challenging, but when you have some but when you have some cool insider tools, cool insider tools, that's even better. that's even better. Now I want to kind of dig into Now I want to kind of dig into SEO because for the extent SEO because for the extent of the Internet, people I feel like have been of the Internet, people I feel like have been talking about SEO from the very talking about SEO from the very start. Now I was around when it, start. Now I was around when it, when there wasn't Internet and when there wasn't Internet and it was just getting going. it was just getting going. And I, I remember back in that time it And I, I remember back in that time it already started popping up and already started popping up and being something that was talked being something that was talked about as being necessary. about as being necessary. So give me a kind of a little So give me a kind of a little bit of history on SEO and how bit of history on SEO and how it's developed and changed from it's developed and changed from when the Internet started to now. when the Internet started to now. SEO has been around for over 20 SEO has been around for over 20 years. I got involved in 2007, years. I got involved in 2007, so I wasn't there at so I wasn't there at the beginning. But basically Google is just the beginning. But basically Google is just trying to find websites that are trying to find websites that are related to them or relevant to related to them or relevant to whatever someone's searching by whatever someone's searching by looking at what are called backlinks. looking at what are By looking what at other called backlinks. By looking what at other websites that talk about you. websites that talk about you. So if you're reading so Google So if you're reading so Google whole algorithm, the way they became popular is whole algorithm, the way they became popular is by ranking websites based by ranking websites based off those backlinks. And the backlink is a clickable off those backlinks. And the backlink is a clickable link from another website link from another website that points to yours. that points to yours. So if you're on like the So if you're on like the newyorktimes.com and reading newyorktimes.com and reading a blog post or an article, a blog post or an article, and in there it says Brandon Liebolitz, and in there it says and you click on it that and Brandon Liebolitz, and you click on it that and it goes to my website, then I'd be getting a backlink it goes to my website, then I'd be getting a backlink from the newyorktimes.com and from the newyorktimes.com and that is how Google really that is how Google really started ranking websites. It's like a popularity contest. started ranking websites. It's like a popularity contest. The more backlinks you get, The more backlinks you get, the higher Google's the higher Google's going to rank you. And that's kind of how Google going to rank you. And that's kind of how Google started. And still to this day, started. And still to this day, it's primarily based off it's primarily based off backlinks through algorithm backlinks through algorithm and how it ranks websites. and how it ranks websites. It's changed a lot over the It's changed a lot over the years and how they look years and how they look at those backlinks. But that's really kind of at those backlinks. But that's really kind of how SEO kind of started. how SEO kind of started. And it's what it's at today. And it's what it's at today. Crazy. I remember a lot of marketers Crazy. I remember a lot of marketers and a lot of people talking and a lot of people talking about the backlinks concept of about the backlinks concept of SEO and people would build SEO and people would build like blogs and, like blogs and, and do all this stuff and just and do all this stuff and just start like it almost was like start like it almost was like spamming backlinks. spamming backlinks. Some stuff has changed Some stuff has changed since then. What, what is it that's the main since then. What, what is it that's the main difference that's changed about difference that's changed about using backlinks from when it using backlinks from when it originally started that way? originally started that way? Well the backlinks originally Well the backlinks originally started as a popularity contest. started as a popularity contest. The more backlinks, the higher you'd rank. The more backlinks, the higher you'd rank. Now it's not the number of backlinks, Now it's not the number but the number of quality of backlinks, but the number of quality backlinks. So what's a quality backlink? backlinks. So what's a quality backlink? Right. Quality backlink means it's a Right. Quality backlink means it's a website that's related to you. website that's related to you. That's the biggest thing. That's the biggest thing. So if you're a doctor and you're So if you're a doctor and you're getting a backlink from getting a backlink from a restaurant, a restaurant, that looks a little strange, like why is the restaurant that looks a little strange, linking up to the doctor? like why is the restaurant linking up to the doctor? But if you're a doctor and But if you're a doctor and you're getting a backlink from you're getting a backlink from a health related website, a health related website, that makes more sense to Google. that makes more sense to Google. So all about relevancy So all about relevancy with the backlinks, the more related to with the backlinks, the more related to you the topic is, you the topic is, the better off it's going to be. the better off it's going to be. Then authoritativeness. Then authoritativeness. How popular is this website? How popular is this website? If you're getting a backlink If you're getting a backlink from my website, it's a good backlink, from my website, it's a good backlink, but it's not the same tier as but it's not the same tier as like the New York Times or LA Times or Forbes. like the New York Times or LA Times or Forbes. So the bigger the website, So the bigger the website, the more trust and SEO value the more trust and SEO value you're going to get. So relevancy and you're going to get. So relevancy and authoritativeness, authoritativeness, those are the two those are the two bigger aspects. But relevancy is number one. bigger aspects. But relevancy is number one. That's the most important. That's the most important. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So is it that people have to So is it that people have to click on one of the backlinks or click on one of the backlinks or is it just that it's there and is it just that it's there and Google sees that it's connected? Google sees that it's connected? It doesn't have to get clicks, It doesn't have to get clicks, but it'd be great if it did. but it'd be great if it did. Right? As long as Google just sees it, Right? As long as Google just sees it, that's number one. that's number one. But getting clicks is ultimately But getting clicks is ultimately the goal. But for SEO, the goal. But for SEO, we just really want Google we just really want Google to see that backlink. to see that backlink. So when would you say, I mean, So when would you say, I mean, we're talking to a lot of we're talking to a lot of business owners and a lot business owners and a lot of entrepreneurs. of entrepreneurs. When is the worst time to start When is the worst time to start adding SEO marketing efforts adding SEO marketing efforts to your overall system? to your overall system? And when is the best And when is the best time to do it. time to do it. I would say there's no real bad I would say there's no real bad time to do it because if you time to do it because if you don't have a website launched, don't have a website launched, you, you could still start building you, you could still start building some backlinks or still just some backlinks or still just get that URL aged. get that URL aged. Because Google looks at so many Because Google looks at so many variables that the sooner variables that the sooner you start doing SEO, the sooner you're gonna you start doing SEO, get those rankings. the sooner you're gonna Because it takes around six get those rankings. Because it takes around six months or more to get months or more to get Google to trust you. So the sooner you start building Google to trust you. So the sooner you start building that trust up, the sooner you're gonna that trust up, get those rankings. the sooner you're gonna So I wouldn't say hold get those rankings. So I wouldn't say hold off on it. Like, even if you don't off on it. Like, have a website, even if you don't buy a domain name and just sit have a website, buy a domain name and just sit on it and have it like on it and have it like a coming soon page. a coming soon page. Because Google sees that URL is Because Google sees that URL is now not just a day old when you now not just a day old when you launch a website, or a week old, launch a website, or a week old, it might be two years old. it might be two years old. And the older the URL, And the older the URL, the more authoritativeness and the more authoritativeness and trust that that URL gets trust that that URL gets slightly, a little bit more. slightly, a little bit more. Gets a little bit of a boost. Gets a little bit of a boost. For those of us that are a For those of us that are a little bit more lame about the little bit more lame about the concept of SEO and backlinks. concept of SEO and backlinks. You said building backlinks. You said building backlinks. What the heck does that mean? What the heck does that mean? Building backlinks or just Building backlinks or just getting other websites getting other websites to link out to you? So there's a lot of different to link out to you? So there's a lot of different ways to build backlinks. I would just spy on your ways to build backlinks. I would just spy on your competitors just using, competitors just using, because if they're on the because if they're on the first page of Google, first page of Google, they're doing something right. they're doing something right. And these are different tools And these are different tools like Ahref or Moz or Semrush. like Ahref or Moz or Semrush. You have to pay for these tools, You have to pay for these tools, but they'll show you any but they'll show you any backlink or any website's backlink or any website's backlinks, and you can throw all your backlinks, and you can throw all your competitors in there and one by competitors in there and one by one look at who's linking out to one look at who's linking out to them and start reaching out to those sites. them and start reaching Because if they're linking out to those sites. Because if they're linking out to your competitors, out to your competitors, they would probably link out to you. they would probably You just got to get creative and link out to you. You just got to get creative and figure out how do I get them to figure out how do I get them to link back to me instead of just link back to me instead of just linking to my competitor? linking to my competitor? Brian, is it a typical reach out? Brian, is it a typical reach out? Like you would network with Like you would network with somebody at an event? Like, somebody at an event? Like, do you reach out to somebody do you reach out to somebody specific that's in charge specific that's in charge of that, at that, at that company and go, hey, of that, at that, at that company and go, hey, would you do this? would you do this? Or is there some sort of Or is there some sort of exchange? How does that work? exchange? How does that work? All the above and tons All the above and tons of other ways. It's not just one size fits all, of other ways. It's not just one size fits all, it's just whatever needs to be it's just whatever needs to be done to get that backlink. done to get that backlink. Sometimes they'll ask you Sometimes they'll ask you to sponsor an event, to sponsor an event, so you might have to talk to the so you might have to talk to the person that is in charge person that is in charge of that event. Or maybe it's A blog post. of that event. Or maybe it's A blog post. So you want to figure out who's that blogger. So you want to figure out who's that blogger. Or maybe you're exchanging Or maybe you're exchanging something where you're giving them a free blog post and something where you're giving them a free blog post and they're going to give you they're going to give you something in return. something in return. But it's all about just getting But it's all about just getting creative and trying to figure out what the competitors have creative and trying to figure done and how to do a out what the competitors have done and how to do a better job of it, of building those backlinks. better job of it, of building those backlinks. Wow, that's, that's crazy. I, Wow, that's, that's crazy. I, I I think a lot of people out there think a lot of people out there would probably not know that would probably not know that it was that involved. And so it's amazing to have a it was that involved. And so it's amazing to have a connection to somebody like you connection to somebody like you who understands all of that. who understands all of that. Is, is SEO best for websites or can Is, is SEO best for websites or can it be utilized for like, it be utilized for like, funnels specifically or for funnels specifically or for like blogs or podcasts? like blogs or podcasts? Where is it? Where is it best used? Where is it? Where is it best used? So SEO is search engine So SEO is search engine optimization, and it's best to use wherever optimization, and it's best to use wherever there's a search engine. So, there's a search engine. So, okay, you're on Facebook, okay, you're on Facebook, you could search on Facebook. you could search on Facebook. If you're on Yelp, you could search on Yelp. If you're on Yelp, you could search on Yelp. If you're on Spotify or Amazon If you're on Spotify or Amazon or anywhere where the search feature, or anywhere where the essentially there's ways to search feature, essentially there's ways to optimize your content to try optimize your content to try to rank higher organically. to rank higher organically. So it's not just S Google So it's not just S Google or Bing or Yahoo, or Bing or Yahoo, but anything that essentially but anything that essentially has a search. There's ways to kind of optimize has a search. There's ways to kind of optimize your website to get the, your website to get the, get the more trust and get the more trust and get higher rankings. get higher rankings. I see. So even, I see. So even, even places like Facebook, even places like Facebook, you're doing search engine you're doing search engine optimization inside of there for optimization inside of there for your website specifically. your website specifically. Or for. Or for. To make sure that your Facebook To make sure that your Facebook page ranks higher. page ranks higher. So I see Search engine So I see Search engine optimization would be like, optimization would be like, if you're an Amazon store, if you're an Amazon store, we're doing it on your Amazon we're doing it on your Amazon store. Okay. If you're on Yelp, store. Okay. If you're on Yelp, we're going to rank you higher on Yelp by optimizing we're going to rank you higher on Yelp by optimizing your Yelp listing. If you're on Google Maps, your Yelp listing. If you're on Google Maps, we're going to try to rank you higher on Google Maps, we're going to try to rank you higher on Google Maps, but it's not going to really affect your website SEO. I mean, but it's not going to really affect your website SEO. I mean, it might help out a little bit, but sure, it's. it might help out a little bit, but sure, it's. Sure. Not really. It's really working on whatever Sure. Not really. It's really working on whatever platform you're on. platform you're on. So Google ranks websites. So Google ranks websites. That's where we want to optimize your website. That's where we want to optimize your website. Amazon is going to rank your Amazon is going to rank your product or your store. product or your store. So you want to optimize that So you want to optimize that content on Amazon. content on Amazon. Right. So how does that work for Right. So how does that work for like a Facebook group? like a Facebook group? Can you do optimization for a Can you do optimization for a Facebook group the same as you Facebook group the same as you would for a page on Facebook? would for a page on Facebook? Yeah, I mean, Yeah, I mean, it's all about like the title of it's all about like the title of the group and make sure you have the group and make sure you have good titles with keyword good titles with keyword that make sense, that help people find that make sense, that group. that help people find Making sure that when you post that group. Making sure that when you post in there that you do or you in there that you do or you post keyword rich content, post keyword rich content, make sure your status updates make sure your status updates have keywords in it. have keywords in it. You use hashtags that are You use hashtags that are relevant to try to draw relevant to try to draw new eyeballs in. new eyeballs in. And you can name your images And you can name your images with keywords before you upload with keywords before you upload them to the platforms. them to the platforms. You can name your files, You can name your files, your podcasts, your videos, your podcasts, your videos, all that stuff with keyword rich all that stuff with keyword rich file names before you upload file names before you upload them to social media to help them to social media to help them better understand what that them better understand what that image or video or image or video or audio is about. audio is about. Right. That seems sort of like Right. That seems sort of like next level thought. next level thought. I know a lot of business owners that, I know a lot of business that I've talked to in the past. owners that, that I've talked to in the past. Sometimes it's like, you know, Sometimes it's like, you know, mvp, like just minimum viable mvp, like just minimum viable product. Let's get it out there. product. Let's get it out there. They're not thinking about They're not thinking about doing all of that stuff. doing all of that stuff. So how challenging is it to get So how challenging is it to get that switch to happen that switch to happen for entrepreneurs? Is it just that they finally for entrepreneurs? Is it just that they finally realize that maybe they've put a realize that maybe they've put a whole bunch of stuff out there whole bunch of stuff out there that isn't actually working and, that isn't actually working and, and and you have to just kind of and and you have to just kind of like bonk them over the head and go, hey, we, like bonk them over the head and go, hey, we, we got to fix all that stuff so we got to fix all that stuff so that you can get some attention. that you can get some attention. Like, have you had an experience Like, have you had an experience with that? Or do most people that come to with that? Or do most people that come to you have they already kind of you have they already kind of figured out that, that, figured out that, that, holy cow, I've been missing out holy cow, on all this already? I've been missing out on all this already? Yeah, probably a little bit of both. Yeah, probably a little bit of both. But the best is just But the best is just telling like, hey, you're spending all this time telling like, hey, you're spending all this time and energy making an image or and energy making an image or a video or a blog post or a a video or a blog post or a podcast takes a lot of time and podcast takes a lot of time and it only takes a few seconds just it only takes a few seconds just to rename the file name with to rename the file name with some descriptive words. some descriptive words. So stuff like that So stuff like that where it's like, they don't think it's important. where it's like, But if you're spending all this they don't think it's important. But if you're spending all this time creating the content, time creating the content, might as well spend the time might as well spend the time marketing it properly because marketing it properly because it's not easy to create that it's not easy to create that content. It takes a lot of time, content. It takes a lot of time, research, effort, research, effort, and little changes to optimize and little changes to optimize it just to maximize that it just to maximize that visibility are going to be worth visibility are going to be worth it in the long term. But sometimes it's letting it in the long term. But sometimes it's letting them know, like, hey, it's not working because you're them know, like, hey, it's not working because you're not doing this or. Right. not doing this or. Some people are just like, hey, Right. Some people are just like, hey, it's not working. I'm ready to do whatever it's not working. needs to be done. I'm ready to do whatever Let me know how to do this. needs to be done. Let me know how to do this. In that light, In that light, what do you think are the number what do you think are the number one mistakes that you see when one mistakes that you see when you're working with your clients you're working with your clients that they've done prior to doing that they've done prior to doing SEO and using your services? SEO and using your services? Let's say backlinks are so very Let's say backlinks are so very important and either they're not important and either they're not building any backlinks or they building any backlinks or they don't know what backlinks are. don't know what backlinks are. They don't know that they're important or building the They don't know that they're important or building the wrong type of backlinks. wrong type of backlinks. Where in the past it was just Where in the past it was just the more backlinks you had, the better. the more backlinks you had, Like you were saying earlier, the better. like just creating a blog or Like you were saying earlier, like just creating a blog or creating a backlink to create a creating a backlink to create a backlink was good in the past. backlink was good in the past. Now it's all about relevancy and Now it's all about relevancy and authoritativeness and making authoritativeness and making sure that you get good sure that you get good quality backlinks, quality backlinks, not just random sites. not just random sites. And that's the part where I see And that's the part where I see a lot of people have either no a lot of people have either no backlinks or the wrong type of backlinks. backlinks or the wrong And that's going to actually type of backlinks. do more harm than good. And that's going to actually do more harm than good. Yeah. Yeah. Getting in and working with Getting in and working with an expert like yourself on SEO, an expert like yourself on SEO, if somebody's never done any of if somebody's never done any of that stuff and they've never that stuff and they've never built in that mindset, built in that mindset, how long does it take to start how long does it take to start seeing results from the seeing results from the efforts of SEO? efforts of SEO? Because it seems as though SEO Because it seems as though SEO in the way that we're talking in the way that we're talking about it is a bit more of a long about it is a bit more of a long term play and it seems as though term play and it seems as though it might take a bit of time. it might take a bit of time. But what, what is your experience But what, in terms of, what is your experience of turnaround time for seeing in terms of, of turnaround time for seeing something come back from the something come back from the efforts you're putting in? efforts you're putting in? Yeah, no SEO is definitely more long Yeah, no SEO is definitely more long term because it takes time term because it takes time for Google to trust you. Google just doesn't trust any for Google to trust you. Google just doesn't trust any website and you have to build website and you have to build that trust up over time. that trust up over time. And some websites will rank And some websites will rank faster than others, but it really comes down to the faster than others, but it really comes down to the competitiveness of those keywords. competitiveness of those keywords. More competition. More competition. The more time it's going to The more time it's going to take to get up there, the less competition, take to get up there, the less that needs to be done the less competition, the less that needs to be done to optimize your website to optimize your website to get you up there. to get you up there. So if you're a brand new website, So if you're a brand you're just pretty much new website, you're just pretty much starting from scratch. But if you've been around for starting from scratch. But if you've been around for like five or ten years, you, like five or ten years, you, you build up a lot of trust and authority. you build up a lot of It's going to be a little bit trust and authority. quicker to get those rankings, It's going to be a little bit quicker to get those rankings, but every website is going to be but every website is going to be slightly different depending on slightly different depending on just the history of it and the just the history of it and the competitors of those keywords. competitors of those keywords. How does the, How does the, the length of history that we the length of history that we have say, I had a website, have say, I had a website, maybe I'm a brick and mortar maybe I'm a brick and mortar company, I've had a website for, company, I've had a website for, you know, maybe Five or six years, you know, maybe Five or six years, but I've never done any SEO but I've never done any SEO or backlinks or on it. or backlinks or on it. Do I have some type of Do I have some type of reputation already with Google reputation already with Google and then SEO just going and then SEO just going to supercharge it, or is it just like you're to supercharge it, or is it just like you're starting from scratch even starting from scratch even though the website's been in existence? though the website's been in existence? No, if the website's been No, if the website's been in existence, then you're not starting in existence, from scratch. then you're not starting So as long as you haven't been from scratch. So as long as you haven't been doing any bad malicious things, doing any bad malicious things, but other than that, but other than that, you've been aging it. you've been aging it. Even though you haven't done anything for SEO, you're still, Even though you haven't done anything for SEO, you're still, that domain is aging and that's that domain is aging and that's building up trust with Google. building up trust with Google. Yeah, Yeah, I've heard one of the concerns I've heard one of the concerns with SEO and keywords and trying with SEO and keywords and trying to get that implemented into to get that implemented into your site is that things tend to your site is that things tend to get very repetitive utilizing get very repetitive utilizing and trying to stay on top of and trying to stay on top of what keywords are ranking what keywords are ranking because you're trying to use because you're trying to use those over and over again. those over and over again. How do you get around that or How do you get around that or how do you deal with that so that, that your, how do you deal with that so that, that your, your pages don't look ridiculous your pages don't look ridiculous by saying the same keywords over by saying the same keywords over and over again trying to get that attention? and over again trying to get that attention? I think that's more of an old I think that's more of an old strategy where you're just putting keywords in the content. strategy where you're just putting keywords in the content. Sure. You just gotta write Sure. content for people, You just gotta write not for Google or search content for people, not for Google or search engines, but right for people. engines, but right for people. And naturally those keywords And naturally those keywords will emerge. And if they don't emerge, will emerge. And if they don't emerge, then you're probably not writing then you're probably not writing the right content about the right content about the right topic. But I wouldn't just throw the right topic. But I wouldn't just throw keywords in there to throw them in there. keywords in there to throw That's a whole strategy them in there. That's a whole strategy that can. Google changes every single day. that can. Google changes every single day. So what works in the past So what works in the past doesn't necessarily work in the future. doesn't necessarily work And that stuff is very spammy. in the future. And that stuff is very spammy. And anything that seems spammy, And anything that seems spammy, I'd probably avoid it. I'd probably avoid it. So can really just focus So can really just focus on the user. That's the biggest thing on the user. nowadays is making sure That's the biggest thing nowadays is making sure everything comes back to the everything comes back to the user having a good experience. user having a good experience. Not optimizing for the Not optimizing for the search engines, but optimizing for people search engines, but optimizing for people essentially, and the search engines, essentially, and the search engines, but more for people. but more for people. Right. It seems as though the AI that Right. It seems as though the AI that the search engines are using are the search engines are using are trying to emulate as best they trying to emulate as best they can what a great experience can what a great experience would be. And so it would seem that the would be. And so it would seem that the more we move forward, more we move forward, the more that's going to be the more that's going to be important is just to continue to important is just to continue to give them as much value as you give them as much value as you can and optimize for a human can and optimize for a human because it seems as though because it seems as though they're trying to make they're trying to make their AI and their, their AI and their, their optimization act more like their optimization act more like a human would. Is that, a human would. Is that, is that an accurate assessment? is that an accurate assessment? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. Everything needs to be human. Everything needs to be human. First AI bot, all that stuff. First AI bot, all that stuff. Secondary focus on people making Secondary focus on people making sure it's a good user experience, it makes sense, sure it's a good user experience, it makes sense, it's readable, it's readable, it doesn't have just gibberish it doesn't have just gibberish or keywords in there just or keywords in there just to throw them in there. But it actually all offers to throw them in there. But it actually all offers benefits to the user, benefits to the user, to the reader, to the viewer, to the reader, to the viewer, or whatever type of piece of or whatever type of piece of content you're putting out there, but just has to offer value content you're putting out there, but just has to offer value and be for people. and be for people. Right. Right. With so many different ways to With so many different ways to optimize a business's content. optimize a business's content. Right. You got a website, Right. You got a website, you have funnels, you have your content strategy, you have funnels, you have your content strategy, whether it be on YouTube or whether it be on YouTube or Facebook or groups or whatever Facebook or groups or whatever it is, Instagram, all the social media. it is, Instagram, all the social media. How do you even begin to How do you even begin to determine for one of your determine for one of your clients where to start? Like, clients where to start? Like, what's the first thing you do what's the first thing you do with all of those different with all of those different pieces of content and things pieces of content and things that we're producing? that we're producing? How do you even get going How do you even get going on what to do? on what to do? You just got to take a step back You just got to take a step back and put yourself in the and put yourself in the user's point of view. If you're looking for that user's point of view. If you're looking for that product or service, what would you, product or service, what would you, where would he be, what platforms would he be on? where would he be, what platforms would he be on? What keywords would you be What keywords would you be using? Would he be on Google, using? Would he be on Google, Would you be on Instagram, Would you be on Instagram, would he be on Yelp? would he be on Yelp? Where would you be? And it's really just trying Where would you be? And it's really just trying to take a step back, which it's tough for to take a step back, business owners, which it's tough for but gotta really understand who business owners, but gotta really understand who your audience is and your audience is and where are they. You don't have to be everywhere, where are they. You don't have to be everywhere, you just need to be where your audience is. you just need to be where That's gonna help save you a your audience is. That's gonna help save you a lot of time and headaches. lot of time and headaches. Sure. And I imagine that that's one Sure. And I imagine that that's one area being that you guys are area being that you guys are such a long running successful such a long running successful company that you guys exc. company that you guys exc. As you help entrepreneurs and As you help entrepreneurs and owners get in and going, you, owners get in and going, you, you guys are probably really you guys are probably really great at helping that. great at helping that. So So what, what, what should somebody expect? what should somebody expect? Like, okay, Like, okay, somebody out here is listening. somebody out here is listening. One of our listeners goes, okay, One of our listeners goes, okay, I like this Brandon guy, I like this Brandon guy, sounds pretty cool. sounds pretty cool. He knows what he's doing. He knows what he's doing. What should they expect as they What should they expect as they start to come in to work with start to come in to work with you? How does the process go? you? How does the process go? And how, how should they expect getting And how, how should they expect getting started to look and feel like, started to look and feel like, well. Every website is going well. Every website is going to be different, so it's not really a to be different, so it's not really a one size fits all, but always starts off with one size fits all, but always starts off with the website analysis, the website analysis, trying to figure out what needs trying to figure out what needs to be done and what the to be done and what the disconnect is from their website disconnect is from their website versus their competitors and how versus their competitors and how to get them to the level that to get them to the level that they want to be at. So got to do that research they want to be at. So got to do that research initially, initially, analyzing their website and analyzing their website and analyzing the competitors just analyzing the competitors just Trying to figure out what the Trying to figure out what the competition's done and what the competition's done and what the client has done and how to get client has done and how to get those levels to be equal or get those levels to be equal or get them higher for their client. them higher for their client. Sure. Sure. How do you deal with you know, How do you deal with you know, like if, let's say they don't have like if, let's say they don't have a website presence, but they have you know, a website presence, but they have you know, five or six different funnels five or six different funnels that are producing income and, that are producing income and, and working for them. How does, and working for them. How does, how do backlinks work on a how do backlinks work on a funnel and, and doing that, funnel and, and doing that, Is it the same thing or is it Is it the same thing or is it just that you handle it completely different? just that you handle it completely different? What would a funnel be exactly? What would a funnel be exactly? Well, just like a specific sales page Well, just like a specific sales page that went into like an upsell that went into like an upsell and then maybe another upsell. and then maybe another upsell. But it wasn't necessarily But it wasn't necessarily designed for website per se. designed for website per se. But it's still on a website. But it's still on a website. Sure. Then, yeah, you can optimize it. Sure. Then, yeah, you can optimize it. But if it's not on a website, But if it's not on a website, then there's nothing you then there's nothing you could do for SEO. But if it's on the website, could do for SEO. then you do all the stuff that But if it's on the website, then you do all the stuff that we were talking about going in, we were talking about going in, putting the keywords in the content, building backlinks, putting the keywords in the content, building backlinks, optimizing your images, videos, optimizing your images, videos, all that stuff. But if it's not on a website, all that stuff. But if it's not on a website, then you can't do it. But if it's on a website, then you can't do it. But if it's on a website, a landing page is still a a landing page is still a website. It's not any different. website. It's not any different. Right, right. Right, right. As long as there's a URL, As long as there's a URL, it's a page on the Internet. it's a page on the Internet. So as long as the URL that could So as long as the URL that could be ranked and as long as be ranked and as long as you have control of it. But if you're on like you have control of it. click funnels, But if you're on like then you can't really click funnels, optimize that much. then you can't really But if you build your own optimize that much. But if you build your own internal funnel on internal funnel on your own website, which is a better way to do it, your own website, which is a better way to do it, that way you don't have to pay the fees and all that that way you don't have to pay extra stuff, the fees and all that because you could build all that extra stuff, because you could build all that stuff for pennies on the dollar stuff for pennies on the dollar that they're selling it for and that they're selling it for and get way more functionality and get way more functionality and features that will help you out features that will help you out way more and have full control way more and have full control over everything instead of just over everything instead of just renting space off in another platform. renting space off in another platform. I see. That's, I see. That's, that's pretty cool. And I think a lot of people that's pretty cool. And I think a lot of people maybe don't know that and don't maybe don't know that and don't know and don't realize know and don't realize that they're, like you said, that they're, renting space off of another like you said, renting space off of another platform and therefore they have platform and therefore they have less functionality, maybe, less functionality, maybe, maybe less ability to do maybe less ability to do some of that stuff. some of that stuff. What what are some of your What what are some of your favorite platforms to favorite platforms to to build on and, to build on and, or to have maybe a website built or to have maybe a website built that can be fully optimized? that can be fully optimized? I'd say WordPress is the best. I'd say WordPress is the best. But if you're not tech savvy, But if you're not tech savvy, then you can do Shopify for E Commerce. then you can do Shopify But I try to avoid Wix for E Commerce. But I try to avoid Wix or Squarespace. They're not the best. or Squarespace. But WordPress stuff do They're not the best. But WordPress stuff do everything any platform everything any platform could do for free. could do for free. Right, right. Right, right. And you said clickfunnels was And you said clickfunnels was a little rough to do it in. a little rough to do it in. Do you find that to be the same Do you find that to be the same with most funnel builder type? with most funnel builder type? No, they're not rough to work with, No, but you just build everything they're not rough to work with, but you just build everything yourself instead of having to yourself instead of having to pay ClickFunnels or pay ClickFunnels or another platform, you could do it all yourself another platform, you could do it all yourself for much cheaper. for much cheaper. I see, I see. Yeah, I see, I see. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. that makes a lot of sense. Well, that's cool. I, I, Well, that's cool. I, I, I feel like the I feel like the I feel like the knowledge I feel like the knowledge around SEO is like, around SEO is like, everybody knows it exists. everybody knows it exists. Everybody kind of talks about Everybody kind of talks about it, like, oh, you should do SEO. it, like, oh, you should do SEO. And then you go, well, are you doing it? And then you go, well, And they're like, no, are you doing it? And they're like, no, I' so I feel like there's this I' so I feel like there's this space where understanding SEO space where understanding SEO and feeling comfortable with it and feeling comfortable with it and then bringing on an expert and then bringing on an expert such as yourself to such as yourself to help with it. help with it. As I have been on my journeys As I have been on my journeys and talked to lots of different and talked to lots of different owners, I feel like there's a fear owners, I feel like there's a fear about it. Like, oh, no, about it. Like, oh, no, I'm worried about it. I'm worried about it. I don't understand it. I don't understand it. It's confusing to me. It's confusing to me. What would you say What would you say to those owners? That they're kind of like, yeah, to those owners? That they're kind of like, yeah, I know I need to do it, I know I need to do it, but I'm a little worried. but I'm a little worried. I'm afraid to do it. I'm afraid to do it. I'm afraid to put somebody I'm afraid to put somebody in there and, and not understand it well in there and, and not understand it well enough to do it myself, enough to do it myself, you know, because a lot of entrepreneurs you know, because a lot of entrepreneurs are like, I've got to learn to do it are like, I've got to learn to do it myself before I pass it on. myself before I pass it on. Which I highly recommend you get Which I highly recommend you get over it. But, you know, like, over it. But, you know, like, what can you tell them if what can you tell them if they're worried about getting they're worried about getting started with it, how can you ease the started with it, how can you ease the fear a little bit? fear a little bit? Yeah, I would just show them how many Yeah, I would just show them how many people are searching for their people are searching for their keywords every single month and keywords every single month and tools like the Google Keyword tools like the Google Keyword Planner, which shows you that, Planner, which shows you that, and show you what they're and show you what they're missing out on and where the missing out on and where the competitors are getting that traffic and just try competitors are getting that traffic and just try to show them that. But if they're fearful to show them that. But if they're fearful and worried, I mean, there's nothing you really do to and worried, I mean, there's nothing you really do to alleviate that except for show alleviate that except for show them case studies and results. them case studies and results. But if they're worried, But if they're worried, that's more on them to that's more on them to get over that fear. get over that fear. Yeah, for sure. Well, Yeah, for sure. Well, it's so important to it's so important to find your who. find your who. So all of you out there listening, So all of you out there are lots of people that there listening, there are lots of people that can help and be experts can help and be experts at different things. at different things. And Brandon is legit. And Brandon is legit. He Is your who if you He Is your who if you want to do some SEO, want to do some SEO, he knows what he's doing. he knows what he's doing. He knows and has it down. He knows and has it down. He's figured it out. You don't stay in business for He's figured it out. You don't stay in business for as many years as they have as many years as they have without having figured it out without having figured it out and helped your clients in a and helped your clients in a really great way. So, Brandon, really great way. So, Brandon, how can our listeners get how can our listeners get in contact with you? in contact with you? How can they come in and start How can they come in and start to utilize your expertise and, to utilize your expertise and, and get their businesses to take and get their businesses to take off using all of your off using all of your skill set and, skill set and, and well, and all the things your well, company offers. all the things your company offers. So for anyone that wants So for anyone that wants to learn more, I created a special gift to learn more, I created a special gift for them on my website. for them on my website. If they go to seooptimizers.com, If they go to seooptimizers.com, that's SEO optimization. that's SEO optimization. O P T I I z E-R-S.com O P T I I z E-R-S.com forward/gift. forward/gift. And they can find that there And they can find that there along with my contact information and a bunch of along with my contact information and a bunch of classes I've done over the years classes I've done over the years I've thrown up for free. And also, I've thrown up for free. if they want to book some And also, time on my calendar, if they want to book some time on my calendar, I'm happy to check out their I'm happy to check out their website from an SEO point of website from an SEO point of view for free and give them some view for free and give them some feedback about what's working feedback about what's working and what's not working and how and what's not working and how to get them to that level to get them to that level that they want to be at. that they want to be at. I love that. I love that. That's so kind of you. That's so kind of you. I appreciate that and I know our I appreciate that and I know our listeners are going to love it. listeners are going to love it. Excited for you guys to go Excited for you guys to go and take advantage of it. and take advantage of it. Don't miss out on this Don't miss out on this opportunity. You've gotten to know a little opportunity. You've gotten to know a little bit about Brandon. bit about Brandon. And I appreciate you so much for And I appreciate you so much for joining us today and being joining us today and being so forthcoming, so forthcoming, sharing with us some of your sharing with us some of your knowledge and expertise knowledge and expertise along your journey. along your journey. And I know it's going to help a lot of people. And I know it's going to So thank you so much help a lot of people. for being here. So thank you so much Thanks for joining for being here. Thanks for joining us on the show. Can't wait to have us on the show. you back again. Can't wait to have We'll talk about some more stuff you back again. We'll talk about some more stuff and yeah, thanks for being here. and yeah, thanks for being here. Thanks for joining us today. Thanks for joining us today. Want more business choreography? Want more business choreography? Check out our website@bizchoreo.com Check out our website@bizchoreo.com to find out. More and find out how the to find out. More and find out how the choreography for your marketing, choreography for your marketing, operations and sales can raise operations and sales can raise your revenue and create your revenue and create more impact. Remember, more impact. every business needs Remember, every business needs choreography. choreography.