Mastering SEO On Search Engines & Social Media Growlearn Podcast

🎙️ I had a blast joining the Grow and Learn Podcast with Zorna! We dove deep into SEO, digital marketing, and how businesses can actually get seen online. 🚀

I shared how I’ve been helping companies since 2007 grow their visibility using SEO, content, backlinks, and the right digital strategies. We also talked about:

• Why backlinks are still 🔑 for Google rankings
• The shift to YouTube, TikTok, and short-form video 🎥
• How AI (yep, ChatGPT too 🤖) is shaking up content and SEO
• The power of email marketing 📧 and how it still outperforms social

It was a fun, engaging conversation all about cutting through the noise online and focusing on where your audience really is. 🌎

👉 Tune in to hear my tips, stories, and strategies to grow your business with SEO and digital marketing!

#SEO #DigitalMarketing #GrowAndLearn #Backlinks #ContentStrategy #AI #MarketingTips #SocialMedia

Transcript

0:12

Hi everyone. Welcome to the Grow and Learn podcast. This is Zorna, your host. I'm especially welcoming anybody who wants to start a business, anybody who's engaged in a small business, maybe growing. You want to learn more about digital marketing, about how to get ahead on social media. So today we are welcoming a specialist in this area. He's been in business since 2007, helping companies optimize with SEO with all kinds of digital marketing techniques. Brandon Lebo. Hi, welcome. Thank you for having me on today. Very good to have you. You're based in la, right? That correct? Mhm, yep. Los Angeles. Pretty much grew up here with my whole life. So it's stugh to leave with this weather. It's too nice out here. Ah, so you're in the epicenter of, social media development, so to say. I mean it's everywhere. But I suppose a lot of Hollywood, actors would be using services similar to what you're offering. Yep. Nowadays pretty much everyone wants it. So everyone needs that visibility and exposure with digital marketing to get that awareness. Yeah. Okay, so I have personally been, buying services similar to yours, years ago when I started my first, business, well, the first business where I needed to use such services, and all kinds of optimizations that I've ever used actually turned out to be not so successful. I'll tell you what has worked for me the best. But I want to know, is SEO still working? Everything that used to be hot back in the day, like backlinks, like writing blogs, like optimizing, for Google. Does this still work? Ye, it's changed how it works, but for the most part it's still the same principles where you want to have good content on your website. That way Google knows what keywords you're targeting, but also that you have good quality backlinks. Because Google doesn't really care what you put on a website. They just don't trust anybody without you building trust up. And the way to build trust is by getting other websites to talk about you. So a backlink is just a clickable link from another website that points to yours. So if you're reading an article, let's say, on entrepreneur.com and in there it says Brandon Lebo, and you click on it and it goes to my website. I'd be getting a backlink from entrepreneur. Com. So backlinks still work as now Google's looking for quality, not quantity. So in the past it was a numbers game. If you have 100 backlinks and I have 200 I'd rank higher than you. Now it's not the number of backlinks, but it's the number of quality backlinks. And a quality backlink to Google is a backlink from a site that's related to what you're doing. So not just finding any random site to link out to you, but finding sites that are targeted and related to what you're doing, that's going to really help out. So overall strategies are similar. It's changed how they look at all this stuff because people have found ways to gameain the system and loopholes on how to get content out there that's low quality or duplicate content and things like that. Where Google's like, we don't want this, we want original quality content and we want good quality backlinks. Mhm. I read somewhere and I also have the observation that search volume is shifting from Google to YouTube. So people are actually not looking for any terms anymore. In YouTube itself. I know, sorry. In Google itself. I know YouTube is owned by Google, but they're going straight to YouTube. So wouldn't it be more efficient to optimize for YouTube than YouTube content instead of bothering to write blogs and optimize with backlinks for Google? if your audience is there, but your audience might not always be on YouTube so it's just understanding who your audience is, where they're going to search. But ultimately YouTube is just a way to get people to your website because people can't really buy off of YouTube. So if you're selling physical products, you might have a review that you post on YouTube but people can't buy that product on YouTube directly. Maybe they might change that in the future, but right now YouTube is just a way to get people to your website. That way once they're on your website they can make that purchase all that stuff. But YouTube is just another way to get traffic. Just like Google'a way to get traffic to your website. And it's all about just knowing who your audience is and where are they actively looking. Are they on Google? Are they on Yelp? Are they on TripAdvisor? Are they on social media? Where are they? And you just have to take a step back and put yourself in the user's point of view. If you're looking for your productct or service wherever you go and that's where you need to be. But YouTube is the second most popular website on the Internet. Google's the most popular. YouTube and Facebook switch off every day or every all the time. From the second and third most popular. But YouTube is just such a big presence. People want to, well, they don't want to read long articles or blogs anymore. People's attention spans are really short. So video content is a way to capture them and get them, get their awareness a little bit easier. But it's all about just really understanding is my audience on YouTube? Great, be there. If not, then be where your audience is at. M Are you seeing a significant shift to TikTok now or how is it shifting the landscape on, YouTube in general? Because on my channel I'm seeing a significant pickup on shorts and I know that, it's a trend everywhere. So is it worth it to optimize YouTube videos or will shorts do? And then you spread them to all channels because everyone's hot on shorts now. You definitely want to optimize your videos and create content for each platform. It's not always going to work sharing content from YouTube onto Facebook or to Twitter or to LinkedIn or to Vimeo or to TikTok. Sometimes it can, but it doesn't always work. So it's best to custom tailor each video to each platform and definitely tap into the shorts, tap into the long formum, tap into TikTok and the reels or even Instagram posting stories and reels and all that stuff and just trying to test it out and see what resonates. But unfortunately, yeah, there's so many different platforms nowadays, it kind of becomes overwhelming. That's where you just got to figure out who your core audience is, what platforms are really active on. And that's where you need to be active on. You don't need to be active everywhere. It's really need to be active on where your audience is at. Do you help your clients identify the best channel also and the type of format they're more likely to engage with? Yeah, because I do SEO and it doesn't always work that people aren't always searching on Google. So SEO, search engine optimization, and let's say I have a client that invented a product, nobody's searching for it on Google, then it's not really going to work. If nobody's searching, then can't really help them out on Google. And it's like, all right, how do we get awareness? And that's where social media might come into play, where that's where you could showcase a new product or new invention or something that no one's really searching for and drive that awareness. And yeah, it's really important to just figure out who your audience is and where are they? Because you don't want to invest time finding out that oh, I spent all this time putting up my LinkedIn and then oh, LinkedIn is S B2B. But I'm not selling B2B, I'm selling B2C. So it's truly trying to figure that out first. That way you don't spend too much time on channels that aren't going to get that big return on investment. I see. And so you're helping guide your clients towards the right channel as well or do you just tell them consider it? No, I help them out and also given them recommendations. They're not always receptive to it, but I'll give them suggestions and say maybe this might be a little bit better because this might be where your audience is versus this is a good platform. But it doesn't mean this is where your audience like you might want to be on TikTok because TikTok is so popular. But if that's not where your audience is, then you don't really need to be there. I mean it's good to have a profile and have a presence, but in terms of being active all the time, if that's not where your audience is, I want to spend too much time on it. I see. Mhm. Okay. And so what are the hot trends now? I mean I'd like to also talk about AI because I'm seeing some pretty significant improvements there in terms of increasing engagement across different platforms. So what is your observation on trends and on some of the tools that have come with the development of AI? Yeah, now chat GPT and's taken over and it's not slowing down anytime soon and it's definitely helped with content creation. Writing content for articles, blogs, social media content, website content, mean copywriting, all that stuff is now replaceable with chat GPT. In the past Google said we don't want this. If you put people like content or content runitt by AI and tools like that, Google didn't really like that. But last year or about like six months ago that actually said that we don't care who writes the content if it's run by people or AI, as long as it offers value. That's what Google really cares about. So nowadays, I mean in the past I would say don't use these tools, but now it's okay. But I won't just copy them verbatim because it's not 100% accurate. You still want to go in and edit them and maybe use them as like a starting point is like an outline, a way to help you out with writing content. But I want to t. Just copy verbatim. Not yet. Few years it might work where you just copy verbatim because the more people that use these tools, the more it's going to learn, the more accurate it's going to become. But right now it is still not accurate. So you need to double check and fact check and proofread to make sure it all looks proper. I'm using Chat GPT and it's Quite okay. It needs very little fine tuning and I think that the two years or an overestimation, I think within a few months it will be because I'm observing how it's developing in the past two, three weeks. It's really learning. So I think two years are an overestimation of the capacity of it. But I am also talking about apps that are optimizing for example the performance of Instagram or apps that help you cut videos or optimize for keywords and SEO. On YouTube videos I'm using such. So it's SEO optimization using AIs on all platforms. What is your opinion on the quality of these to use AI? I mean you can use AI to help you write like a meta description and SEO title tags because it gets kind of technical. I don't know how technical you want to get but m. Go technical. Yeah, go details. Yeah. So they need title tags and my descriptions and you could just tell Chat GPD to write you a title tag or my description but those come out really bad and I wouldn't. No, I'm talking about other specific for each platform. For example for Instagram there's Pat Social and there are a few more that are AI powered. For YouTube there is one that is Vidiq and there's yet another one that I can't remember. So they're integrated straight into your browser and they give you prompts where to optimize. So I'm talking about really developed AI solutions now. Mhm. Yeah. I haven't used those specifically so I don't want to speak on those tools and give wrong information. But I've used GPT4 and other tools like that and creating pumps and things like that to help refine and really hone in and get the right responses that you're looking for because it's all about putting the right prompts in and you don't really need to buy these other tools or just putting prompts together for you. Some of them I'm not Sure. What you're specifically talking about, but there's a lot of tools that will do the AI for you, but they're just prompts and if you can write good prompts yourself, you don't need to spend the money on those tools. But it depends what these tools are doing. If they're doing other things besides just writing prompts, then they might be valuable. But essentially a lot of them are just prompts that they're just doing for you, that they've taught GPT how to go and write the right verbiage, put the right keywords in the right places. But you know what you're looking for and you could put that in yourself. Then you don't really need those third party tools. Mhm. Okay. Well, well optimization I think will more and more develop towards AI. Will. We'll see what the adoption will be. But what is your opinion on email marketing? Is it amongst your top marketing tools that you would recommend or does it still depend? No. Email is always going to be powerful because you get full control of email, that's yours, whereas everything else is not yours. Like social media, you're just renting space off these platforms, you don't own any of that and you don't get much engagement or reach anymore. Whereas with the email, you collect emails, you send out the emails, everyone gets that email doesn't mean they're going to open it. Some might go into spam, but at least they're going to get that email. Whereas you post on Facebook, only 5% of your audience will ever see what you're posting on Facebook because the reach is so low that they don't show it to everybody. But email is always going to be number. Well not always but for the time being and ever since I've been doing digital marketing has always been the number one channel. They get visibility and get traffic because you control that. Just like your website, you get full control of that email, you have full control of your audience and it's going to be the most powerful by far. But you have to collect emails. You can't just buy emails. And that's the tough part is how do you get people to give you their email address? That's where you have to offer something of value. Like if your ecommerce website, you just have a little pop up. Anyone goes to your website saying give me your email and I'll give you 10% off your first purchase. But if you're a service based business, that's where you got to get a little bit more creative. Like if you're a dentist, what could you offer people that's going to want them to give you your email? That's going to be a little bit more tricky. Maybe you write an ebook about seven ways to whiten your teeth without going to the dent or I don't know, something unique where you're getting, like hooking them and offering them that free content. Like myself, I offer classes, so I teach classes. I also have free classes and I'll give away free classes to people in exchange for the email address. So it's all about getting creative and figuring out a way to get people to give you their email. Because if you're just buying emails, that's not going to work. And also got to think someone's selling an email list of email addresses. You got to think how many people have bought that list and that email address is getting spammed all the time. That person probably doesn't even use that email address anymore because it've gotten spam so much. So don't buy emails, collect them. And then when you do send out emails, just offer value. Never promote yourself. So when people sign up your email list, if you just start promoting yourself, no one's going to want to read that. Got to take a step back and think you re sign up for someone's email list. Do you want to just hear them talk about why they're the best, why they're the greatest? Proably not. You want to know what can they do to help you, what tips can they offer you? So giving them free tips, free advice, free or like offering benefits and solutions and then maybe subtly promoting yourself at the end. But if you just promote yourself in those emails lose people's trust. And they're not going to, and they're not going to want to read those emails. They're probably going to unsubscribe. Mhm. Well, I don't know. With email marketing there, I've heard of quite a few different opinions of what is like the pace you're supposed to send out emails. Like three nurturing emails followed by a sales email. You know, there are all kinds of formulas there. What is your formula for email marketing? Just provide value. I mean I'll nurture and then at the bottom I'll say and by the way, if you want to contact me for every website analysis or to learn more, here's my link. But I'm not promoting it specifically. Every once in a while I promote myself, but that's really few and far in between. So most of them are just nurture offering that value and then su subtly at the end being like and by the way, you want to learn more? Here's a link to my calendar to book some time. My calendar so maybe 1 out of every 10 that might be promotional where maybe the 10th one I'll be like hey and by the way, are you still interested in SEO? Here's a link to book sometime but that I try not to do that too often because you want to really offer value and if you're just promoting yourself all the time, people are unsubscribed. So try to make it like where I'm blogging, where my blogs are saying where I try to offer value, give insights, give tips and tricks and solutions at work versus just trying to promote myself. Mhm. Is this the only way you convert customers? Through this subtle link to your services? At the bottom of the emails, how do you convert? Well that one is just. The email is just another touch point to keep myself top of mind. Because they read those emails, they're probably not going to just convert right away but it keeps you top of mind. So like oh I remember Brandon does SEO. And then they might see some of my ads that follow them around. So if you go on Amazon and you look at a product, you don't buy it, those ads will fall you around. It's called remarketing. Do the same thing for my website or any of my clients. I recommend that they remarket to anyone that's been to the website and did do a specific conversion action. Redar remarket to them, follow them around because these are all warm leads. People have been to your website, they know who you are, something distracted them or whatever it may be that didn't get them to convert. Let's try to keep yourself top of mind. Especially like if you're ecommerce and someone went to your shopping cart, added a product to the shopping cart but then't check out. Let's follow them around because they were that close to making that purchase but they didn't do it. Maybe we offered them a m coupon code or something of value that's just going to reinforce it and hopefully get them to convert. So just trying to deep myself top of mind and eventually hopefully they'll want to. They'want to reach out because you need multiple touch points depending on what you sell. You're just selling a T shirt, don't really need to do all that but something high ticket over 100 or 1,000. You probably want to have those multiple touch points to get people to really trust you more. Mhm. We talked about the developments in AI and the fact that content is now accepted when it's produced by AI solely. is there anything else that is a novelty in the digital marketing sphere? I Another one that Google's look at is like user experience. So they're looking at how people behave on your website because in the past if you just rank for a keyword on Google that looks good, you're going to rank for that keyword. But Google said, all right, that's not really what we want to do. We want to make sure that when, if you rank number one for a keyword and people click from Google and go to your website, that they stay on your website. Because if people go to your website and then leave immediately, that tells Google maybe you aren't the most relevant, that something's off. So that's a big signal now is user experience and making sure that people go from Google and stay on your website. They don't just leave. Otherwise Google just thinks something might be off and wrong. And there's so many little things. I mean Google doesn't really tell you what they do because they keep it top secret. They don't really want you to know what's going on in their algorithm. Every once in in a while they announce what they're doing, but most of the time they really keep a top secret because they ultimately want you to get frustrated and spend money on paid ads because that's really how they make all their money. And SEO is just there because if Google was just full of ads, nobody's going to want to use Google. So they have to have that balance of the organic, the SEO and the paid ads. Mhm. So how do you figure out the algorithms? Do you reverse engineer every time there's a change? that would be tough because it changes every single day there's a change. Oh wow. They're usually tiny changes that aren't that big of an impact. Every few months they'll have big updates and that's where try to figure out what's going on. What's Google looking at now? Talking to other webmasters, other people that do SEO, reading up in different blogs and forums or looking your Facebook groups, listening to podcasts, or whatver I could do to learn and try to just then try to reverse engineer. But sometimes they'll tell you what they're looking for. Every once in a while we'll tell you. In 2013 they said if your website is not mobile friendly, we're not Going to show you on mobile devices, which is kind of apparent. Makes sense. If you're searching on your cell phone and you click on a website and it's really hard to read, you have to zoom in. Not a good user experience. So Google says mobile friendly websites going to get preferential treatment on mobile devices. They said a while ago if your website loads slowly then they might potentially penalize you. They want fast loading websites, but other than that they don't really tell you much about what's going on. So it's just becoming a detective and trying to figure out what's going on. What's Google thinking about nowadays? What's the future of SEO and how do I make Google happy? Mhm. Let's talk about Facebook then. So you said that 5% only of all posts are being shown, what is the effectiveness of their ads? Because in my experience with ads, I've actually completely given up on Facebook ads because for me this has never worked even when professionally done. So what is your experience on Facebook ads? The ads work just knowing who your audience is. So you have to understand Facebook, it's going to be cheaper than Google because you're getting lower quality content or lower quality traffic. If someone's searching on Google, they're searching, they're looking right now for your product or service. Whereas social, you put in all these parameters saying this is my age group, my demographic, this is the interest that they have, this is who I want to target. But that doesn't mean they want to use your product or service. They might want to use it in the future, they might want to use it in the past, but it doesn't mean they want to use it now. So Google, they're searching, they have that intent. Social, it works, but it's just different. Social is better for like awareness. So driving awareness for like let's say you have a new product or service that nobody's searching for on Google. Can't really do SEO if nobody's searching for it. So social is a way to drive that awareness and get people to find out about stuff like that. But in terms of getting new leads, it doesn't always work. Like myself, I do SEO. Not many people are going to go on Facebook looking for an SEO company. Some people do, but most people aren't really going on social. Looking for dentists, lawyers, service based businesses doesn't really work too well. But it does work to keep myself top of mind. So someone goes to my website, they don't fill out the form, they don't contact me, then I'll remarket to them, I'll follow them around on Google, I'll follow them around on social, I'll follow them around pretty much everywhere because I want to keep myself top of mind. It doesn't matter where you are or I keep myself top of mind. So REM marketing definitely I would do on social media. But the cold outreach, I probably say Google's going to be worth spending extra money because you're getting that intent, that buyer intent behind it, which is a little different than social. Mhm. and on Google when I'm looking for something, at least it was like that maybe a few weeks ago because I paid attention maybe months ago, that always on top of their YouTube videos. I think they changed this so now it links. But at some point it was mostly YouTube videos showing us top search results for Google. So isn't it then better to focus all efforts on developing a YouTube channel and on YouTube content? Not really. Not necessarily. Well Google owns YouTube so they're going to promote it. So when you search on Google, there's websites that appear. There's 10 websites. Nowadays though, it's not just websites that appear in the organic listings. There's images, there's videos, there's maps. But all that is random. Sometimes it appears, sometimes it doesn'doesn't always appear. The 10 websites will always appear. There will always be 10 websites. If you're a local business, like if you're searching for like a dentist or a restaurant, then the maps will appear. Sometimes the videos will appear, sometimes the images will appear. But kind of hit or miss, you never know when Google's going to show them or when they're not going to show them. But best practice is optimize all your images because you want to make sure those images show up. So the way to optimize your images is the file name. Before you upload an image to your website, you want to name that image with descriptive words. You don't want to just name it image00Onet JPEG. You want to name it descriptive words. And when you upload it to your website, each platform is going to ask for different things like title, description, caption, but they're going to ask for an alt tag or alternative text. That's where you also want to put those keywords or describe what that image is about with the videos. When you search on Google and you see videos, Google owns YouTube and Google only cares about making money. So when you search on Google, if you see a video, majority of the time it's going to be YouTube because Google doesn't want to promote Facebook or Vimeo. They want to promote YouTube because let's say you search on Google, you don't click on an ad at the top. Google doesn't make any money. They're not going to be happy about that. But if you search on Google and there's a video in there, there's a YouTube video and you click on it, the first thing that appears. Anytime you watch a YouTube video, there's always an advertisement. So YouTube is making money, which is really Google making money. And they're going to promote that as much as they can. But it doesn't always guarantee that YouTube is going to be shown in the search results. So I would still promote Google or promote your website. And if you have videos, I'd optimize those for YouTube and all the platforms, but really push YouTube as much as possible. Just because Google is going to promote YouTube as much as they can, they're not going to promote Facebook or Instagram videos. Sometimes they'll appear there, butjoy of the time it's always going to be a YouTube. And having that presence there is just another way to get more real estate, more exposure and people also buy off people. So YouTube is a great way to put a facey behind the company, build that trust up and let people know that you're a real business or that you're a person as well behind the business that's going to help out that you care about them and that you're there to offer solutions. How long does it take to optimize, a website for SEO? I have now speak about my experience again. I have done this for three websites and the last one was for my business Hereal and Learn. And I worked with a company for more than a year and they did manage to pick up my website from the, I don't know, 400th place or whatever. I think I was on the eighth page. So at some point they brought it forward but it was not like it was a significant improvement where I would show up in the first two pages. So I mean, I guess it also depends on the kind of business but how long does it take for you to optimize using SEO and see positive results? That one varies depending on how much shows youield has been done to your website versus the competitors. Because really it's not one size fits all. It's not just saying I to take six months because every website is different and we need to look at how much SEO has been done to your website. Versus the competitors and what's the disconnect. And that kind lets me know how long it's going to take. If you're a brand new website then it's definitely going to take at least six or more months because Google just doesn't trust anybody and you can't just build that trust up. It takes time to build that trust up. Trust really comes from backlinks. The more backlinks you have from trustworthy, relevant, authoritative sites, the faster Google's going to trust you and rank you. So that's the biggest part is the backlinks take time to build. And also once you build backlinks, Google might not find that backlink for a couple of days, a couple weeks, couple months. They might never find that backlink. Which is also part that takes time is you could build all these backlinks, but that doesn't mean Google could find them because Google tries to find all the pages on the Internet but they can't find every website and sometimes takes them a lot longer to find those backlinks or they might never find that backlink and it's not going to help out with those rankings. So it is a more long term play. SEO does take a lot of time and it really just comes down to who your competitors are, how much SEO have they done versus you? And the more competition you have, the more time it's going to take, the less competition, the more niche you get, the less competition, the faster and the easier it is to get those rankings. So you're just sellnding like T shirts and something really broad and generic like that. It's really tough because you're competing against big corporations like Target, Walmart, Amazon, all these big, big corporations. But if you could find something more niche, maybe organic amp T shirts for children, something like that, it's a little bit more niche, a little bit more unique. Less competition means it'll be a little bit easier to break through and get into that market and get you those rankings. Mhm, I see. Okay, and how about these smaller platforms or video platforms or also podasts, podcast platforms. do you recommend focusing on any of these or do they not really matter? I mean if your audience is on them then I would definitely be on them. So maybe there's some video platform out there that you know your audience is specifically on. I would definitely jump on it even if it's a small, tiny platform, if that's where your audience that you need to be there. So but I would definitely try to be as many places Possible because you never know who your audiences, where they're going to be. And I would just try to throw everything against the wall and see what works. Look at analytics and other tools to see where am I getting I traffic. Maybe Vimeo is going to bring you more traffic than YouTube, which I doubt it. But you never know. Every website, every business is different and you never know until you test. So it's all about trial and error. Test it out, see what works, push more time and money into what's working, pull money away from what's not working, and just try it all. But I would try them all out, or at least the bigger ones and see in analytics, using tools like that, see how much traffic are you getting. You could see conversions, you can see sales, and you might be surprised that some of these smaller platforms might bring in more sales and more leads and some of the bigger ones. But you never know until you test. Yeah, and would you say that advertising is, a must because, you can advertise, I mean, you can optimize all you want, but if a part of the algorithm of Google is to also have, advertising spent and you don't. So my question is, does advertising represent a significant portion of the optimization efforts? I mean, Google said that running paid ads is not going to help out SEO because there'd be a big conflict of interest. So you don't need to be running paid ads to help your SEO. I mean, Google will get in a lot of trouble. They might. I, doubt they're doing anything that would jeopardize their, the credibility to do that because then people will be like, oh, you're just paying to get up there. So SEO isn't going to help out. I mean, paid ads isn't going to help out with SEO, but doing an SEO will help out your paid ads. So if you optimize your website and have an SEO optimized website, then Google said your paid ads will actually be cheaper. So if you're running paid ads on Google and it might cost a dollar for every click to your website, but if you optimize your website and really have, really good SEO on your website, Google said instead of a dollar, they might charge you 0.98 per click. So you're going to save a little bit of money off those clicks, which in the long term will add up. But other than that, that's the only benefit of SEO, will help make your ads a little bit cheaper. But running paid ads isn't going to help out with SEO. So where can people find you Brandon if they need SEO optimization and if they need to figure out what the best channel is for them to use, I actually create a special gift for everybody if they go to my website@seooptimizers.com comm that's SEO O P T I M M I z eash r s.com gift and they can find that there. Along with my contact information and a bunch of classes I've done over the years I've done up for free so you can see step by step how I do a lot of stuff that we talked about. And also if they want a website analysis, I'm happy to check out their website from an SEO point of view for free. And they could book some time on my calendar there as well. Wonderful. Thank you so much for your generosity in giving out this information. It was a pleasure. I appreciate you enighting us in these details. It's also important for me. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me on. Thank you for listening to Grow and Learn. We hope that you found our podcast informative, engaging and inspiring. Our mission is to help you keep growing and learning, and we hope that our convers and insights have provided you with practical advice and useful perspectives. If you're looking for personalized support and guidance to help you achieve your personal or professional growth objectives, I offer a range of services to help As a trusted management partner and mentor, I work with businesses in the process of transformation, looking for new streams of business as well as M and A. With an extensive professional network of experts and mentors, I can bring on board the right person or team based on the specific needs of the company I'm working with. To learn more about the services I offer and how I can help you achieve your goals, visit my website@growandlearn.org. you can also reach out to me via email or social media. I'd love to hear from you and if you enjoyed this episode of Grow and Learn, please subscribe to our podcast and leave us a review. Your feedback is important to us and it helps us to continue to create content that is relevant and valuable to our listeners. Thanks again for listening and we look forward to sharing more insights and perspectives with you in the future.